Ahead of Pope Francis’ Apostolic Journey to four nations in Asia and Oceania, Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle, pro-prefect of the Dicastery for Evangelization, explores the meaning of the Pope’s visit for the universal Church.
By Gianni Valente and Fabio Beretta, Fides News Agency
VATICAN CITY — Four nations in two continents, for a total of almost 40 thousand kilometers to cover. The papal plane will take off from Fiumicino airport on September 2, and Pope Francis will begin his longest and most demanding Apostolic Visit, traveling to Asia and Oceania.
However, the Bishop of Rome leaves his diocese not to break records, according to Cardinal Luis Antonio Gokim Tagle, but rather as “an act of humility before the Lord who calls us” and in “obedience to the mission.”
As the journey that will take Pope Francis to Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, East Timor and Singapore draws near, the Pro-Prefect of the Dicastery for Evangelization (Section for First Evangelization and the New Particular Churches), spoke to the Vatican’s Fides News Agency.
He explored the reasons why this journey of the Successor of Peter among the Churches of “smaller flocks” is important for the universal Church, saying it can affect all those who care about peace in the world.
Q: At almost 88 years old, Pope Francis is about to make the longest and most tiring journey of his pontificate. What moves him to embrace this “tour de force“?
Cardinal Tagle: I remember that this visit to Asia and Oceania was actually scheduled as early as 2020. I had just arrived in Rome, at the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, and I remember that this project already existed. Then the Covid-19 pandemic put a stop to everything. And I was very surprised that the Holy Father once again took up the project. It is a sign of his paternal closeness to what he calls‘ existential peripheries’.
Truly, I am younger than the Pope, and these long journeys are heavy even for me. For him, embracing this effort is an act of humility, too. It’s not a show to portray what one is still capable of. As a witness, I call it an act of humility before the Lord who calls us: an act of humility and obedience to the mission.
Q: Some people have said this trip is another confirmation that the Pope prefers the East and neglects the West.
This idea of regarding Apostolic Visits as a sign that the Holy Father “prefers” one continent or part of the world, or despises other parts is a false interpretation of papal journeys. After this visit, at the end of September, the Pope plans to visit Luxembourg and Belgium. He has also visited many countries in many regions of Europe.
It seems to me that, with these journeys, he wants to encourage Catholics in all the contexts in which they find themselves. We should also bear in mind that most of humanity lives in these areas of the world. Asia is home to two-thirds of the world’s population. The majority of these people are poor. There are many baptisms among the poor.
Pope Francis knows that there are many poor people in those areas, and among the poor there is an attraction to the figure of Jesus and to the Gospel, even in the midst of war, persecution, and conflict.
Q: Others have pointed out that Christians, in many countries the Pope visits, are small in number compared to the population.
Before making his visits, the Pope received invitations not only from the local Churches but also from civil authorities and political leaders who formally requested the presence of the Bishop of Rome in their country.
They want the presence of the Pope not only for reasons of faith, but also for reasons concerning civil authorities. For them, the Pope remains a powerful symbol of human coexistence in a spirit of fraternity, and for the care of Creation.
Q: As a pastor who hails from the Church of the Philippines and as the Cardinal of the missionary Dicastery, what experiences and meetings have you had with the countries and Churches that the Pope will visit over the next few days?
In Papua New Guinea, I made an Apostolic Visitation to the Seminaries upon request of Cardinal Ivan Dias, then Prefect of the Congregation of Propaganda Fide.
In two months, I made two journeys, visiting the Seminaries of Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands. I have also visited Indonesia and Singapore, but I have never been to Timor-Leste, although I have met many bishops, priests, non-ordained members and laypeople from that country.
For me, Asia is “a world comprising different worlds,” and as an Asian, I see how trips to Asia open my mind and heart to vast horizons of humanity, and of human experience. Christianity also takes hold in Asia in ways that surprise me. I learn a lot from the wisdom and creativity of the Holy Spirit. I am always surprised by the ways in which the Gospel is expressed and embodied among the different human contexts.
My hope is that the Pope, and all of us in the papal entourage, as well as journalists, can have this new experience, the experience of the creativity of the Holy Spirit.
Q: What are the gifts and consolation that communities visited by the Pope on the next visit will be able to offer the Church as a whole?
In those countries, Christian communities are a minority almost everywhere, a “small flock.” In places like Europe, the Church still enjoys a certain cultural, social and even civil “status” of respect.
Yet, in many Western countries, we are returning to this experience of the Church as a small flock. It can be good to look at Churches in many Eastern countries to see how one should behave when one is in a condition, in a state of lowliness.
The experience of the first Apostles, of the disciples of Jesus, is repeated over and over in these countries. A parish priest in Nepal told me that the territory of his parish is as large as a third of Italy; he only has 5 parishioners scattered over such a large territory. It is 2024, but the context and experience appear similar to the Acts of the Apostles. And the small Churches that live in the East can teach us.
Q: The first stop of the papal trip is Indonesia, the country with the largest Muslim population in the world.
Indonesia is a nation-archipelago, and there’s a huge diversity of situations culturally, linguistically, economically and socially. It is also the country with the largest number of Muslim inhabitants in the world.
The great gift of the Holy Spirit to the Indonesian Catholic community is that of a coexistence that does not deny diversity. The Pope’s visit will hopefully bring new lifeblood to the fraternity between believers of different religions.
Q: Have you been able to experience the concrete signs of this fraternal coexistence during your visits?
They told me that the land where the Catholic University is located was gifted by the first President. This is an important message, which shows that among the Indonesian people, everyone is accepted as brothers and sisters.
I also remember when I participated in Youth Day in Asia. Given the low number of Christians, many young Muslims were also among the volunteers involved in the organization. The Bishops’ Conference gave me two assistants, both Muslims, whom I saw carrying out their duties with great reverence for the Church.
Q: What about the second stage, in Papua New Guinea?
The Church in Papua New Guinea is a newer Church, but it has already given the universal Church a martyr, Peter To Rot, who was also a catechist.
Papua New Guinea is also a multicultural country, with various tribes that occasionally come into conflict with each other. But it is a country where diversity can be a resource. If we suspend our preconceptions, even in tribal cultures, we can find human values close to Christian ideals.
In Papua New Guinea, there are places where nature is unspoiled. Two years ago, I was there for the consecration of a new Cathedral. I asked the Bishop for water, and he told me: “We can drink the river water, it is potable.”
Thanks to their tribal wisdom, they have managed to preserve harmony with nature and can drink directly from the river. Something that we, in so-called developed countries, no longer have.
Q: And the third stage, in Timor-Leste?
It is significant that the Pope will reach Indonesia and, subsequently, Timor-Leste. These two countries have a history of struggle and are now at peace. It is a fragile peace, but thanks to both countries, it seems lasting.
The relationship between the local Church and the government is very good there. The local government also supports Church-related educational services. It seems to me that the Church itself was one of the beacons for the population during the war for independence. The people of Timor-Leste declare that their faith in Christ sustained them during the years of struggle for independence.
Q: Finally, the fourth country, Singapore?
It is one of the richest countries in the world, and it is wonderful to see a people who have reached such a level of professionalism and technological vanguard in a few years, and with limited resources, also by virtue of a sense of discipline.
The government in Singapore guarantees freedoms to all communities of worshippers and protects them from attacks and disrespectful acts. Offenses against religion are severely punished.
People live safely, and so do tourists. But a balance is needed. History teaches us to be careful that law enforcement does not end up contradicting the very values that laws are supposed to protect.
Q: Even in those countries, especially Papua New Guinea, apostolic work is punctuated by tales of missionaries martyrs. But sometimes we continue to present the work of missionaries only as an expression of cultural colonialism and political beliefs.
Q: There currently exists a trend and a temptation to interpret history, especially the history of missions, with today’s cultural outlooks and to impose our visions on missionaries who lived centuries ago.
Instead, we must interpret history carefully. Missionaries are a gift to the Church. They obey Christ, who told His people to go to the ends of the earth to proclaim the Gospel, promising that He would always be with them.
Occasionally, national leaders of the nations have taken the missionaries to different places during colonization processes. Yet, those missionaries travelled to evangelize, not to be manipulated and used by colonizers. Many priests, missionaries, and non-ordained people have acted contrary to the strategies of their own government, and have been martyred.
Q: What is the mysterious bond that always links martyrdom to mission?
Two years ago, a study on religious freedom was published. One fact was obvious: in those countries where intimidation and persecution existed, the number of baptisms was increasing.
Where there is a real possibility of martyrdom, faith spreads. Even those who are not believers ask themselves: ‘Where does all this strength—which leads them to offer their lives—come from?’ It is the Gospel in action.
And our purpose, also for the Dicastery for Evangelization, is to help the local Churches, not to impose a mindset or a culture different from theirs.
